The Skills That Will Keep Leaders Relevant Tomorrow

Welcome to the Vantage HR Influencers Podcast. This podcast is sponsored by Vantage Circle.

Riha Jaishi: Hello, listeners. Welcome back to another episode of the Vantage HR Influencers Podcast. I'm your host, Riha, and today we're exploring a question every leader is asking right now. What skills will keep you relevant tomorrow? Now, think about it. Technology is racing ahead. Teams are becoming more dynamic than ever. Expectations are equally shifting fast. So how do leaders stay credible, decisive, and human throughout all the changes? To help us unpack that, I'm joined by Shubhra Singh, Head HRBP Global Business at Sonata Software. Welcome to the show, Shubhra. It's a pleasure to have you with us today.

Shubhra Singh: Thank you, Riha. The pleasure is all mine. Thank you so much.

Riha Jaishi: We are equally delighted. Okay. So to kick things off, can you briefly take us through your professional journey so far? I mean, our listeners and I are eager to learn about your journey.

Shubhra Singh: Thank you, Riha. I'm not sure how eager people would be, but I am going to take your word for that. So, Riha, as you've already mentioned in my introduction, I'm currently working with Sonata Software, and you have caught me at a great time because I am in the process of shifting into a different role as well. The details I can't share right now because we are yet to make that public, but it's an absolutely exciting journey for me over here. I have been heading HR Business Partnering for quite some time. I have also been part of the change management and leadership development initiatives over here. I have worked on quite a few innovative projects, and it has been a fabulous journey, specifically with respect to succession planning, figuring out how to create the talent pipeline, and what exactly the leaders actually need as we move forward.

Prior to this, I have worked in multiple industries. I have also been in consulting, at a firm known as MXV Consulting. One of the most enriching experiences of my life was there because I closely got to work with the business, and it went beyond the typical expectations of HR. I think, for me, one of the recent experiences I had was one of my clients came back to me after more than five years. I left that organization more than five years ago, and yet they come back with queries about the initiatives that were started at the time when I was there. Quite an enriching experience, and I must say that the people relationships I've built along the journey have been tremendous. So yeah, that's it about me.

Riha Jaishi: Okay, so that's a very interesting and inspiring venture, Shubhra. Thank you for sharing your experience.

Shubhra Singh: My pleasure.

Riha Jaishi: With your permission, I would like to delve into our topic further, shall we?

Shubhra Singh: Oh yes, of course.

Riha Jaishi: Okay, so when organizations set business goals, what's the very first step HR leaders should take to translate these goals into a talent strategy? What do you think?

Shubhra Singh: Okay, thank you for that, and I guess the very first step they need to take is to be a part of the business goals getting created. HR should not be separate from business at all, and I think we've been saying that for quite some time, but yeah, there are still those gaps to be addressed. But beyond that, and I get why you're asking this question, once the business goals are formulated, you have to ensure that the talent strategy is in line with the organizational objectives. And I feel that one of the most important things HR leaders need to do is not operate in silos. Rather, communication with the business leaders needs to be a strategic, collaborative, immersive approach. And while these words might sound a bit too jargonish, in very simple words: talk to the business, understand what it is that they intend to do, and why is it that they intend to do it.

Just as a simple example, when any business goal is taking shape, assuming the company wants to expand into a new market or expand its market coverage by 15%, the first thing the HR leader needs to ask is: what geographies are we going to get into? What are the skill sets that will be required? Are there certain cultural nuances that will be needed? Is there some language specific requirement? And based on this, once these answers are sought, that is when the HR leaders need to figure out what the talent strategy will be. Also, if innovation is one of the business goals, then what exactly are the skill sets needed with respect to innovation? What is the kind of mindset we are looking at? And based on that, the learning modules need to take shape. So only when the why of the business goals is understood clearly can a talent strategy even start taking shape.

Of course, once we have figured out the talent related implications, that is when the next steps of identifying the competencies or capabilities come up: internal assessment happens, which is the internal talent audit, the gaps are identified, and subsequently program support is put in place, and the entire talent strategy takes shape. So yeah, that's what I think. First, be involved in the business goals, and second, figure out the way.

Riha Jaishi: That is a great understanding you've given here, Shubhra. I really like the point of how you focused on the basics, like how to be involved in the business goals and to know the why of the business goals. That is a must, right? Those are the foundation you can focus on. And how you mentioned the emphasis on innovation and skill sets, these are some important factors we need to keep in mind. So thank you for that.

Shubhra Singh: My pleasure. Thank you.

Riha Jaishi: Okay. Moving on. What are some of the early warning signs that a talent strategy and business goals are out of sync, when they are out of sync? What do you think?

Shubhra Singh: Oh, well, I think one of the first warning signs would be if the HR leader is not consulted, or is just asked to execute whatever the strategy is. That would be the biggest warning sign, if HR is perceived just as someone who executes, or is viewed more from an administrative lens.

Beyond that, one of the things which almost every organization, and currently I am in IT services, and we're really struggling with, is high turnover. You would have heard, once the quarterly results were announced for most organizations, this year has been a painful year for almost everyone in the IT sector. Coming back to the early warning sign, if there is high turnover, and that too of the top talent, it is a clear indication that the talent strategy and business goals are not in sync. Because if we are not able to cater to the top talent of the organization, the high potentials as they're typically known, it clearly means the business is moving in one direction and talent in the other, and they are not really working in tandem.

The other thing is, if a number of business critical positions go unfilled, or there's a long time taken to fill them, that is also a clear indication that the business goals have probably either not been articulated well or have not been understood well, because that is where we have not been able to get the right people for the business critical positions.

Another early warning sign would be if the rate of external hiring is higher than the rate at which the business is growing. Again, related to the previous point, we have not been able to develop our people internally, and because of that we have to go extensively to the outside market and hire people, because the business objectives need to be met. And this has another implication: the cost goes way higher. So this impacts that as well.

So I think these are three, four things: one, if HR is given more of a transactional role; second, very high turnover of the top talent; business critical positions going unfilled; and the rate of external hiring being higher than the rate of growth of the business. I think these are clear indicators that the talent strategy is not in sync, and it is a cause for alarm.

Riha Jaishi: You have highlighted some very important and significant warning signs here, that organizations should really heed, about how the HR role is limited to only being consulted and not transactional. So that really needs to change, I suppose. And about the high turnover you mentioned, that is something to look out for, along with the business critical positions not being filled and the rate of external hiring getting higher. These are some important factors organizations should really look into, right?

Shubhra Singh: Absolutely. It's too late.

Riha Jaishi: Yeah, true, true.

Shubhra Singh: And interestingly, most of my conversations with peers and colleagues in the HR fraternity and the business community, these are things which are understood very clearly. The gap, unfortunately, is between the understanding and the actual action taken. And I wish that happens sooner rather than later. Otherwise, it's going to be a very difficult scenario, especially with the rate at which things are changing these days. People can't afford to delay.

Riha Jaishi: Exactly. That's true. Well said. Okay, moving ahead. What metrics or indicators should HR really keep an eye on to know if their talent strategy is truly driving business success?

Shubhra Singh: Very good. And thank you, Riha, for these questions, because they're quite interconnected. With respect to metrics, again, from a typical way of looking at it, one would be the business metrics the HR leader needs to look at, and then there are the people metrics, or HR metrics.

First and foremost is revenue per employee, or the productivity index of each employee in the organization. That clearly indicates whether we are getting the right return based on the investments being made in people. If that's not there, and if your client delight index is going low, that is also a clear indication we haven't been able to cater to the people. So productivity and client delight index are two very critical business metrics to keep in mind.

Beyond that, from an HR standpoint, as I mentioned earlier, turnover, especially of top talent or high potential talent, is a metric to look at. The other one is time to hire. If that is a very long time, again, that's an indication of things not being right, and HR leaders always need to keep an eye on that.

Internal movements, what a lot of organizations call internal mobility or job rotations, and the rate at which we are promoting people internally, are very important, because that's a clear indication of the HR leader's understanding of how things are scaling up, what kind of people are needed for those roles, and whether we are able to move people around and promote them at the right time.

And then the other one, and this is my personal favorite, is diversity, equity, and inclusion. I know a lot of organizations talk about it often but haven't given it its due, especially with things having changed in the American market, where the focus has reduced quite a bit after the new government came in. But I still feel tracking DEI metrics shows how agile and equitable the organization is, which in the long run is very important for any organization to be sustainable and successful.

So these are a couple of metrics. There are a gazillion others. If you just search which HR metrics or people metrics to track, you might get 30 to 40. But these are the primary ones I feel. I'd welcome it if someone shares more with me. But for now, I think this should be it.

Riha Jaishi: These are some crucial metrics, Shubhra, that you've mentioned: the business metrics and the HR metrics. And apart from these, the one you mentioned about DEI, which is the need of the hour these days, it's not optional anymore, and people should include it. This is something that stands out from the rest of the metrics.

Shubhra Singh: Right, right. It does. I really hope organizations give it that importance. There was a time when DEI was at the helm of all the metrics organizations were tracking, and then it went down a bit. Now it's more transactional, more with respect to numbers. But I'm not sure that's it. There's a lot more to DEI than we have even thought of capturing. So yeah, hopefully we will move there.

Riha Jaishi: Yes, yes. Okay, so going ahead, what are some practical ways, Shubhra, you think, to engage business leaders so that they see talent strategy as a growth driver, rather than just an HR function?

Shubhra Singh: Oh, very interesting. And here, once again, I have to say this: I'm sure business leaders listening to this, and even HR leaders, will resonate with all these questions, because we struggle with them day in and day out.

One of the most important things, which at times HR leaders fail to do well, is include the business leaders, bring them together. The need for breaking out of silos, for anything and everything we do, is very important. And specifically with respect to driving talent strategy, it is extremely important, because talent is going to be the only differentiator as we move forward. The tools and technology, more or less, everyone will adopt at one time or another. But if they are able to involve the business leaders, ensure they co-create the talent strategy, not that we create something and then say, this is for you to follow and execute, but rather get their buy-in, ensure they believe in the approach that will help their business grow.

The other thing, beyond that, is piloting specific talent initiatives in one or two business units or functions. This personally has had a tremendous impact. For one of my key businesses, because I used to work very closely with them, I was able to implement a lot of initiatives. And since that was also the largest business unit for us, the success or failure gave us so many learnings that we were able to cascade things very easily, or make the required changes and spread them across the organization. So involvement and piloting would be another.

The third thing, again coming from my experience, is creating interdepartmental or cross-functional groups or projects that people can work on. For example, we conducted a hackathon, a 24-hour hackathon, and one of the prerequisites was that the teams formed had to be interdepartmental. They had to have people from presales, from marketing, from HR, the technology team, and some architects as well. While initially there were apprehensions about how people could find so many other people across different departments, the business leaders from different units got together and enabled their people to figure out how to create the teams, and came up with mentors on their own. There was a lot of traction just from ensuring things are more collaborative and interdepartmental. It works wonders.

And one more thing I'd like to add is showcasing success stories. We talk about those success stories in some shape or form, but do we translate any talent success story into a direct business impact? We might show that a person has grown phenomenally in their journey, but do we also correlate that with the business impact of that person's growth for the respective business unit, and invariably for the organization? If we're able to show that to business leaders, I believe we'll have complete buy-in from them.

And the final thing is, I feel business leaders don't get enough rewards and recognition. We always expect leaders to go ahead and recognize others, but who thinks about recognizing those leaders, right? We might have a lot of initiatives, but imagine if we create champions out of the leaders who are involved in co-creating talent development initiatives. Wouldn't we achieve more than half our goals? Because their peers would then feel, let me also grab this opportunity.

These are some of the ways. And at the end, I feel we need to understand that business leaders are human too. Treat them at that level. Don't always expect them to be superheroes, or the people who have to deliver it all. Do the same things for them that would be done for other people in the organization. And I think HR leaders will then be able to co-create the talent strategies they envision.

Riha Jaishi: Shubhra, I really like how you presented your unique perspective on these practical ways for leadership. And particularly, I liked how you mentioned the need for breaking out of silos and becoming more inclusive, more collaborative, showcasing success stories, and how leaders should also be given the chance to be recognized and rewarded. And the thing that stood out most is that leaders are also human, so they need to be taken into account. People should understand their perspective and treat them equally. I feel like this really stood out. People hardly talk about what leaders go through, right? They have their own struggles and pains.

Shubhra Singh: Oh, tell me about it. Everyone who keeps scaling up in their lives and journeys knows how lonely it gets as people scale up. It's a lonely journey, people talk about it, but experiencing it is something very different. And this is where the HR function and HR leaders, while they too need to be treated like that, have some phenomenal capability of transforming organizations. Not just for the rest of the organization, but for the top rungs, they can bring about the difference that ensures the company keeps growing, keeps moving forward, while taking care of its people. The element of care is going to be extremely important. It has always been true, but it's going to be more true now, because as we move forward, we'll be dealing with more tools and applications, and at that time, keeping things human will be critical.

Riha Jaishi: Absolutely. Well said, Shubhra. Okay. Looking ahead, what trends do you see, Shubhra, that are shaping the future of talent strategies and that will stay tightly aligned with business goals?

Shubhra Singh: I don't know if I need to look ahead for that. This is one thing I've often discussed with people: things haven't changed much. The facts have remained facts, they haven't undergone a dramatic shift. We have always spoken about being more data driven, about taking decisions based on data. It's the same, just with the added nuance of AI. So it's true now, and it'll become even more true as we move forward. But even today, and I can't tell you how much it hurts me, people still think the HR function is not data centric. I think it's our prerogative, our responsibility, to break out of that cliched role. For that, we need to be on the bandwagon of AI and data analytics. That is one key trend no one in the business, and no one in HR, can ignore anymore.

It's also important to understand or create the right kind of talent strategy, because we're moving into a world that's going to be hyper personalized. That's another very important trend. We've been speaking about it for a couple of years, but I'm not sure all companies have understood how important it is. What works for Riha might not work for Shubhra, and if both these people are important to the organization, we need to take care of them in the way that the kind of growth they want is what the company provides for.

The other trend, I feel, is continuous learning. I can't emphasize this enough, and I can't tell you how much we tell our leaders they have to be role models in this. No one can survive now without it. It has literally become a matter of survival: a person who does not learn is going to become redundant so fast, and just obsolete maybe in a couple of years. The shift is going to be phenomenal.

The third thing, linked with learning, is agility. We can't delay decision making, we can't sit on a problem for long and then discuss, analyze, overanalyze, and get into analysis paralysis. Take action, get into sprint mode. After moving from a software development lifecycle, when agile became the way software projects started getting delivered, an agile way of working is also very important in every project, everything we do at an organizational level. All these sprints, pilots, like I mentioned earlier, get into the pilot mode and continuously keep improving. That's another thing I feel.

Coming back to my favorite, DEI, that too has to be an important trend. I'm sure there is going to be a time when we see how having diverse perspectives, a more inclusive organization, a more equitable organization, is going to skyrocket growth for the companies that tap into this correctly. So hopefully, and there are a couple of companies already doing this, it has to become a bit more common.

And then the trend, I'm not sure if I can call it a trend, is more from an employee value proposition standpoint, one that needs to be created. Especially when we're talking about talent strategy, the articulation of an EVP is very important. More or less, we are looking for, and if there are five companies in the IT sector, all five are going to look for a similar kind of talent. What is it that will ensure a standout individual joins my company? It's only going to be based on this EVP. And if I'm able to create that for my people and for the organization, and if people actually see that in reality, not just on paper or on the website, then I think there's tremendous scope for a great talent strategy to be created, one that will ensure sustainable growth for the company.

So yeah, some of these trends, and there are going to be many more. But I guess I'll stop here for now. Otherwise, we might just keep going.

Riha Jaishi: These are some amazing trends you've mentioned, Shubhra, that are shaping talent strategy. I really liked how you mentioned HR being cliched into this non data centric role, and how it's very important that, moving ahead, data analytics or HR analytics become the need of the hour, and how hyper personalization is also the need of the hour, along with continuous learning, DEI as we discussed earlier, and EVP. These are some essential trends that everyone out there, HR professionals especially, should be looking out for as they move forward, shaping long term goals for their organizations, right?

Shubhra Singh: Yeah, absolutely. And in this AI world, HR is going to have a very interesting role to play, and the sooner we realize that, the better it will be. Because people in this function are going to be pivotal to creating that edge for every organization. It's like the make-or-break point, or the make-or-break function, I feel. So it's just one of the best times to be in this function. And the rate at which things are changing, we're experiencing it firsthand, in every facet of HR. Now we are able to see how data and AI can help us do a lot more than we used to earlier. Earlier it was more instinctive, and I'm not negating that it still remains, it will remain. But now instinct couples with data, and you get something beautiful.

Riha Jaishi: Absolutely. Okay, so Shubhra, we have come to the end of our session. Before we wrap up, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing such incredible insights. It's been more than a pleasure hearing your perspective on the significant skills that will keep leaders relevant tomorrow. We really appreciate your time and expertise, and I'm sure our listeners are heavily inspired and are walking away with a wealth of information to ponder.

Shubhra Singh: Thank you, Riha. Thank you so much. I really wish all that you said is true, you made it sound amazing. So thanks a ton for that. And I have to thank you, you kept this conversation very engaging. I had initially thought I'd probably cut it short, but I just enjoyed conversing with you. So thank you so much for that.

Riha Jaishi: Thank you once again, Shubhra. That means a lot. And to our listeners out there, thank you for tuning in. We hope you find today's conversation as enlightening as we did. Until next time, take care, and we'll see you soon.

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