The Opportunity Gap In Leadership For Women Of Color

Welcome to the Vantage HR Influencers Podcast. This podcast is sponsored by Vantage Circle, the leading employee benefits and engagement platform.

Susmita Sarma: Hi everyone, this is Susmita from the Vantage HR Influencers Podcast. In today's episode, we are going to discuss the opportunity gap in leadership for women of color, and without wasting much time, let me introduce you to today's guest, Cynthia Pong. She is an award-winning career strategist, speaker, and author. She is also a LinkedIn Top Voice for Job Search and Career. Welcome to the show, Cynthia.

Cynthia Pong: Thank you so much. It's great to be here.

Susmita Sarma: Okay, so could you please begin by introducing yourself to our audience?

Cynthia Pong: Absolutely. My name is Cynthia Pong. I'm a feminist career strategist who specializes in working with women of color. I'm also an author, speaker, and the founder of Embrace Change. Not only do we work with women of color leaders in getting them the money, power, and respect that they deserve, but we also work with organizations to make sure they are more equitable, impactful, and empowering for people of color and women of color.

Susmita Sarma: Right. So Cynthia, getting deeper into the topic today, I have some information about women of color: just 1% of Fortune 500 CEOs were Black, 2% were Asian, 2% were Latino, and 5% were women in 2020, according to reports. Fast forward to today, Rosalind Brewer was appointed CEO of Walgreens on March 15, 2021, making her the only Black female CEO of a Fortune 500 corporation at the time. So while women of color have one foot through the door, there's still a lot of work to be done. What do you think led to this disparity, and how does this lack of representation affect the careers and perspective of those who are just getting started in the workforce today?

Cynthia Pong: Right. It's kind of a bleak landscape when you look at what it's like at the very top of a lot of these organizations, and it's really not limited to the corporate environment either. As to what led to this disparity, it's absolutely institutional racism and sexism, 100%. That's why you see what I call vertical segregation in a lot of organizations, including a lot of the ones that listeners and you and I encounter. You might find that maybe there are more people of color, maybe more women in the organization, but they're mostly at the bottom, at entry-level positions, maybe up to middle management, but the higher up you go, the more it is dominated by white men. That's the vertical segregation we see, and it bears out in these stats about the Fortune 500 CEOs. It crosses over from corporate to nonprofit to government positions too.

Beyond labeling it institutional racism and sexism, I also think there is something called opportunity hoarding, which is when people who historically have had opportunities, resources, and access don't really want to share them with other people. So they are essentially hoarding and keeping opportunities to themselves, to people who look like them, to their friends, to folks they grew up with. That's sort of how power and access continues to stay in the hands of a few.

As to the second part of your question, about how this lack of representation affects the careers and perspectives of people just starting out, it sends a pretty strong message, which is that we'll open up a certain level of access to you, but once it goes higher and higher, those spaces are not for you, because you don't see people who look like you up there. For a lot of us, it's hard to imagine a future when we don't see the pathway. That's why all this "representation matters" conversation is important. There aren't enough examples or role models, people who have forged the way for us up there, and that makes it more demoralizing overall.

Susmita Sarma: Right. So Cynthia, we also hear how important it is to bring your true self to work every day. Do you believe that women of color, in particular, have difficulty doing so? Do you believe women of color feel unable to speak up about any bias or inequality they might be experiencing?

Cynthia Pong: Absolutely. There was a recent New York Times article about this, and I think the title was something like "why it's so hard to speak up," and that is because it's not safe for us to do so. We are punished a lot of times for speaking up, and I mean that both in terms of the more obvious types of punishment, but also sometimes it's not so visible, so people might not even see it for what it is. It could be something as subtle as: you spoke up to say something critical of a particular plan or strategy, and later on, somebody didn't consider you for a particular opportunity. They may not even realize they did this, but this happens to people of color, women of color, way more than it does for men. Men are judged for their potential, whereas women, and especially women of color, are judged based on our track record. We're never given that extra benefit of the doubt. So if we speak up and take a stand, it's just more dangerous for us to do so.

Another thing I'll say on this point is that there is a Harvard Business Review article, or a similar publication, about how Black women are treated as a pet until they are a threat, and I think that extends to a lesser extent to other groups of women of color too. We're great, we add diversity to the team, we work hard, we're doing well, but then there comes a tipping point where people perceive us as getting too close for comfort to their position, and that might make people become defensive and feel that we are a threat to their job or their livelihood. That switch can flip very easily, and that's part of the reason why it's not psychologically safe for women of color in the workplace.

Susmita Sarma: So what actions should they take to address these issues? What can women of color employees do to confront their bosses on this and gain trust in raising their voices against unconscious or deliberate oppression?

Cynthia Pong: I really think on this one, the onus to take action and make changes is really on those who are in power, the white folks in the organization, white allies. They have to make the environment such that it is psychologically safe for people of color, women of color, to speak up. If you don't, you're going to lose out on valuable input, information, and innovation, and your bottom line is going to suffer if you don't bring in all the voices you have there, because people are not going to be operating at their full capacity, efficiency, and productivity if they don't feel psychologically safe. It's not on people of color or women of color to build that in, they're not in the position of power to do that. White folks and leaders, people in positions of power, have to think very deeply about how they can shift the dynamics and culture within their organization so that women of color are supported, amplified, not punished for things they may say, and given credit for what they say. All of those things help create a safer environment for them to fully participate in the workplace, and that benefits the entire organization.

Susmita Sarma: Right. So basically, it's the duty of the bosses and the employers to help women of color feel safe in the organization.

Cynthia Pong: Right. Yeah.

Susmita Sarma: So the old saying that people of color must be twice as good to get half as far rang truer than ever when we see these numbers. Just 68 Latinas and 58 Black women are promoted to manager for every 100 entry-level white men, according to a LeanIn.org and McKinsey report. According to a Harvard Business Review study, 76% of Latinas and 80% of Black women want to be promoted. Another report says that because of the COVID-19 pandemic, women of color were more likely to be laid off or furloughed. And if you get more specific, I also read an article that said Kamala Harris's skin was lightened by a magazine for a cover. These statistics show that women of color face many obstacles when seeking advancement in their careers, and are also undervalued as contributors to business success. So what steps can be taken right now to address these issues?

Cynthia Pong: Yes, and thank you for laying it out there like that, because you really can't argue with these numbers, and these numbers tell many stories which have a common narrative. The "working twice as hard" experience really resonates with the experiences of myself, my friends, my clients. So what can be done right now? Number one, hire women of color. In the US, the vast majority of jobs lost during the pandemic and the economic fallout have been jobs of Black women, jobs of Brown women, because of which industries were hardest hit. So hire them whenever you have the chance, then promote them once they're in those positions. That would really help move the needle against the vertical segregation problem that exists in these organizations, and it would also help move the needle on psychological safety, and just create pathways for people starting out to see that there is opportunity for them to grow and continue contributing to the organization.

A couple more things: amplify them. In meetings, you can say, "Susmita was just saying this great idea about the stats from the Harvard Business Review, so I want to piggyback off what Susmita said," and name them specifically, so other people hear their name tied to the contribution they made. Don't talk over women of color, don't take credit for their work, and listen to them. Hand in hand with that is the promotion piece, rewarding them, recognizing them. This is where we get into what it's like to really be a sponsor or a champion for somebody. It's not enough these days to be a mentor, talk is cheap, it's easy to give people advice and then expect them to do all the hard work to close the gap. What we actually need is people who are in the room, who have a seat at the table, who have the access to open the door and literally pull people up, say their names in certain rooms, get them the recognition you were just mentioning, Susmita. That's what's actually going to help: actions over words.

Susmita Sarma: Right. So again, with the global pandemic and the growing momentum for the #BlackLivesMatter campaign, it appears that the world is increasingly recognizing that significant collective work is needed if we are to see true social change in our lifetimes. Do you believe real change is on the way? What are your expectations about how we can recover from this moment?

Cynthia Pong: I tend to be someone who's a bit more pessimistic and cynical, so I'll preface it with that. I think there are signs that make me hopeful that real change is on the way. At the same time, I'm not holding my breath for it, because a lot of white folks and other people had this sort of "wake up call" when there was a resurgence in the Black Lives Matter movement. It didn't start with the murder of George Floyd, but that moment definitely acted like a wake-up call for a lot of white folks. The truth is that Black people and people of color have been sounding this alarm for centuries. I saw this in an Instagram post, that white folks have been metaphorically hitting the snooze button on that alarm for hundreds of years. So it's hard to look at that track record and be hopeful that there's going to be a sea change, especially as we're recording this close to one year from the day George Floyd was murdered, and a lot of the momentum I feel has already been lost from that initial push. People have sort of gone back to their status quo, thinking that what they've already done, like a BLM statement, a Stop AAPI Hate statement, maybe hiring some people, is enough. I don't see changes that I really think are sustainable, long-term changes that shift power and access. So I think some steps have been taken. I will say I am heartened by the fact that I see a lot of people of color and women of color creating spaces for us specifically. I think that's great because it provides support and the psychological safety that is lacking in a lot of places, but as far as mainstream institutions, I think there's a lot more work to be done.

Susmita Sarma: Right. So again, when it comes to leadership, many of us have realized the role of women of color leadership in the development of social justice movements over the years. People want to rally behind women of color and follow their example. What action or show of support do you believe is most important for achieving equality in leadership across sectors?

Cynthia Pong: Give them the mic. Give them the space, give them the positions, the money, the title, the resources, the staff, and your full backing and support, really holistically and comprehensively support them in a true position of leadership. I think a lot of times this feeling of "we want to rally behind" doesn't get followed through on what that actually means. We want to use them in a tokenizing way because it looks good to have people of color, women of color, in a photo op, or we want them to lead and actually do all of the hard work and heavy lifting. If any of those are the true motives, then it's not really rallying behind them. Rallying behind them may actually mean stepping aside and giving them your spot, creating more space for them to be next to you. Those are the more meaningful actions that may require some sacrifice on your part, to be honest, to share instead of hoarding the opportunities and only giving lip service.

Susmita Sarma: Okay, so what would be your one piece of advice for our listeners?

Cynthia Pong: Oh, this is always a hard one. I would say for the women of color and people of color: always negotiate. For the white folks, the allies, and the people in leadership, I would ask a question that I think we can all benefit from asking ourselves: what's one thing we can do this week to give more power to a woman of color?

Susmita Sarma: Right. I'd also like to ask you one more important thing: the role of HR in organizations. They may also have a very vital role to play here. What would be your advice to HR professionals on this?

Cynthia Pong: I would say the same thing as for leaders and white allies: think about how you can take action to better support women of color and people of color in your organization. What's one thing you can do to help close the leadership gap we talked about earlier, to close that opportunity gap, so that you can get more Black women in top leadership, more Latinas in top leadership, more Native women in top leadership, more Asian American women in top leadership? That would be my piece of advice, and also a regular daily or weekly challenge to yourself.

Susmita Sarma: Right. So we're saying that HR should be open to promoting women of color. Don't you think these things should be written into official policy?

Cynthia Pong: Yeah, I definitely think there's power in incorporating DEI-focused policies, weaving diversity, equity, and inclusion into the policies of an organization, 100%. And if that is not possible right away, because sometimes that can take a long time, in the short term it's always possible to take action, it's always possible to make a different decision that may be more equitable. We're not talking about equal treatment necessarily, we're talking about equitable treatment. It's going to take more than just offering the same thing to everybody in an organization to really shift the power within an org. So action can be taken today, can be taken now, this week, as you also work on updating the policies to be more DEI-focused.

Susmita Sarma: Right, okay, and so finally, how can our listeners reach out to you?

Cynthia Pong: The best way is through my website, which is embracechange.nyc. There's a ton of resources on there, I have a couple of free downloadables for people in HR and people ops, or anyone thinking about starting or growing an employee resource group more strategically and successfully. Those downloadables will help HR, people ops, and talent folks create better, more successful, and impactful DEI initiatives in an organization, and you can find those in the banner on my website or linked through my blog. There are also a lot of free resources for employees of color, especially women of color. I have a book you can read about and purchase there too, a career change guide specifically for women of color called Don't Stay in Your Lane. For anyone interested in free career advice and strategy on social media, you can find me on LinkedIn if you search my name, Cynthia Pong, or on Instagram, my handle is embracechangenyc. Those are the main offerings I've got, and if anyone's interested in working with me, you can also get in touch through my website.

Susmita Sarma: Lovely, that was a great conversation with you, Cynthia. Thanks so much for joining me on the Vantage HR Influencers Podcast.

Cynthia Pong: Thank you so much.

Thanks for listening to the Vantage HR Influencers Podcast, where we engage with HR influencers about human resources. Please do subscribe to the Vantage HR Influencers Podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify for new episodes.