Building A Culture Of Continuous Conversation In The Workplace

Susmita Sarma: Everyone, welcome to another episode of the Vantage Influencers Podcast, and I'm excited to have Jason Lauritsen, who's a keynote speaker, author, advisor, and leadership trainer who has worked with companies like Quantum Workplace, Union Bank and Trust, and Best Companies Group, among others. Jason is a passionate workplace culture advocate and the best-selling author of the book "Unlocking High Performance." Welcome to the show, Jason.

Jason Lauritsen: Thanks for having me.

Susmita Sarma: So, Jason, how did you get into HR, and what excites you about this phase of HR?

Jason Lauritsen: Like a lot of people, I didn't know I wanted to be in HR, I kind of found my way into it, or was called into it, I guess. My early career was, of all things, in sales, and sales led me eventually into recruiting, I became a third-party recruiter. Doing that work, I had the opportunity to see inside a lot of organizations. I was talking to people about their jobs, talking to organizations about why people were leaving and why people would come, talking to individuals about why they wanted to work somewhere or what they were looking for. And what I noticed in those conversations was a lot of dysfunction, it seemed like work just wasn't working very well for a lot of people. Eventually I got really interested in the relationship between people and their work, the dynamics that exist there. I was puzzled as to why it wasn't working well for so many people, and I think that's what ultimately drew me into corporate HR, I wanted to be able to do something about it, to be part of fixing it. I was always interested in leadership and human behavior and those kinds of disciplines, fascinated by it, and once I found my way into HR and could bring it all together to have an impact on people's experience, I was hooked.

Susmita Sarma: You often talk about work as a relationship, not a contract. As we're recording toward the end of the COVID crisis, how can new-age leaders think about building a culture where work is seen as a relationship between employer and employee, rather than a transaction?

Jason Lauritsen: That's a big question with a lot of layers, but fundamentally, one of the moments in my career where this started coming into focus was recognizing that all the employee engagement data we have tells us engagement is really driven by things like feeling valued at work, feeling cared for, trusted, appreciated, and recognized. These are all relational constructs, things that generally exist in the context of a relationship with other human beings. So when we think about fixing the employer-employee relationship, it's about moving away from treating work through the lens of "what have you done for me lately," which is how most HR programs and processes are designed, making sure employees are getting work done and living up to their end of the bargain. Instead, thinking through the lens of what employees actually need, this relational stuff, means asking how we treat people more like we're in a two-way relationship, with the same considerations we'd bring to any other relationship. That means asking for feedback more often, being in genuine two-way conversation more often, really listening to what people are telling you, making sure people feel seen, valued, and appreciated for their effort. These are fundamentally simple things that make someone feel good about the relationship, but we often overlook them because we're so busy enforcing programs and checking boxes on performance. Performance matters, obviously, but if someone doesn't feel like I care about them over time, and the relationship is broken, they're not going to want to perform as well for me. We have to put the relationship first, and make sure people feel that connection to their work and to the people they work with and for, in order to do their best.

Susmita Sarma: You mentioned feedback, how should a leader give effective feedback to employees without it sounding too critical?

Jason Lauritsen: What's really interesting about feedback is that, for some reason, over the last several decades of managing people at work, we've decided feedback needs to be critical, mostly focused on looking backward at what you did yesterday, last week, last year, and telling you everything you did wrong. The problem is that a whole body of social science tells us that's just not an effective way to motivate performance improvement or behavior change. I think the key is adopting a very different mindset, which is part of why we've been hearing so much about coaching in the context of work, and managers thinking of their job as more of a coach than a manager.

This really sank in for me thinking about my own experience, years ago, I hired a golf coach to help me play a little better, since I needed to play well enough for business reasons. I'm not a great golfer and never have been. We went out to hit balls, and he just said, "go ahead, hit some balls." I'd swing, he'd watch, and then he'd say, "before your next swing, let's talk about your grip a little," give me a piece of advice, and say, "just try that and see how it goes." I'd swing a few more times, and he might ask, "what were you thinking about when you hit that one?" and then suggest something to try next time. What I realized is that not once during that entire process did he ask me how I'd played in the past. He was never critical of my swing, never told me what I was doing wrong, the only thing he focused on was giving me helpful guidance on how to perform better in the future. Every good coach I've ever had does this, they might bring your attention to something that's not working, but they don't spend time criticizing something from a play that's already gone, because you can't change that. Coaches know their job is to optimize how you perform on the next play, not to relitigate the last one.

The best way I've seen this articulated, and I didn't coin the term, it comes from Marshall Goldsmith and others before me, is "feedforward." Instead of feedback being critical about past performance, feedforward acknowledges past performance but provides advice and suggestions toward future improvement. For example, if someone I was coaching botched a presentation, did a couple of things poorly, feedback would mean calling them into my office, being specific about what they did wrong, the impact of it, and telling them what to do differently. That's feedback, and it focuses on criticism, which triggers defensiveness. Feedforward would sound more like, "hey, would you be interested in a few thoughts on things you could try in your next presentation?", inviting them into it, since most people love suggestions even though they don't like criticism. Then the actual suggestion might sound like, "one thing I thought about while you were presenting, I like to open my own presentations by outlining the agenda clearly so people know what's coming, that might help you," or, "I noticed the pacing felt a bit fast at times, so next time you might try slowing down a little." The idea is you're offering suggestions for next time, and because of that, it's not received defensively, it's received as a useful coaching tip they can actually use, rather than something to protect themselves against.

Susmita Sarma: How do we design the work experience for employees so their work relationship is optimized, given everyone has different needs, some want flexible timing, some are more ambitious, some have different desires, whether it's a company of 10,000 or 100 employees? How does a leader think about creating the right culture?

Jason Lauritsen: There are great lessons from studying the design process itself. Design is about creating with intention, specifically with intention for the person it's for, designers know the first step in any design process is to go study and really get to know the people they're designing for. That's often where we fall down in workplaces, we make assumptions about what employees want and need. You're right that needs vary by individual, but it depends on the scale you're designing for. If I'm a manager thinking about my team, I need to be in conversation with them to understand their specific needs, then bring that together with what's actually within my authority to create the best situation I can for them. If flexibility is within my responsibility as a leader, I can create whatever scheduling works as long as the work gets done, work with people individually, make sure they're crystal clear on expected outcomes, and help them find a schedule that lets them do their best work.

At an organizational level, it's broader, more like being a product designer at a consumer electronics company. You can't design a product that perfectly meets every consumer's needs, but if you talk to a broad enough group of your employees to understand what's common among their needs and wants, you can build culture, processes, and programs around those common needs. You won't get it perfect for everyone, but if you actually get to know your people and what matters to them first, you'll be far ahead of organizations that just write rules based on what's been done in the past or what they assume people want. Start by really knowing your people.

Susmita Sarma: What can "best places to work" lists tell us about creating the most engaging workplaces, if we want to replicate their value systems and culture?

Jason Lauritsen: When I studied this while working at Quantum Workplace, I boiled it down to three things these organizations do differently. First, and probably most important, they're relentlessly dedicated to creating clarity through communication, and not just pushing information out, which is what we usually think of with corporate communication, but constant two-way communication. Leaders and managers share information transparently, but there's also real opportunity for employees to ask questions and provide feedback, it's an ongoing conversation at an organizational level. Second, they foster connection at every level, they're serious about people feeling a strong sense of connectedness with peers and managers, and they deliberately create space for that social connection to happen. Third, they go out of their way to make sure employees feel appreciated, recognized, and acknowledged, they generally have systems, processes, and rituals in place that make people feel the organization genuinely cares about them and values their impact. Those are the three things that consistently rise to the top when you study what these organizations do differently.

Susmita Sarma: What's a practical "hack" leaders can use to get more engagement from their employees?

Jason Lauritsen: I don't love calling it a hack, but it's something small, easy, and something every manager on the planet can do, yet it doesn't get used often enough: sit down and ask your people about their work experience. Ask questions like, "what could we do as a team to make the day-to-day experience feel better for you, or make working here feel more energizing?" Or, "what could I do to be more supportive of you, or be a better manager for you?" Or, going back to appreciation, "what's the best way I can show you appreciation, or show you you're doing a great job? What's the best recognition you've ever received at work, something you feel really good about?" When you ask questions like that and stay in that kind of conversation periodically through one-on-ones, employees will tell you what needs to be done, you just have to listen closely and then act on it, or find a way to meet those needs.

The other thing I'd point to is the one-on-one meeting between managers and employees, it's probably the easiest, fastest way to improve engagement. If your organization isn't requiring people managers to have a structured one-on-one with each team member at least monthly, start there, it's probably the most effective tool you have. And if your managers aren't skilled at it, give them a simple framework, a few starting questions like the ones I just shared, and coach them that their job in that meeting is to ask questions, listen, and provide support and coaching, not talk at the employee. Those two things, done consistently, are probably the fastest and best techniques you can use to improve engagement, and they start working almost immediately.

Susmita Sarma: Are there metrics HR leaders should use to measure engagement, and how would they identify a disengaged employee?

Jason Lauritsen: There are really two questions there, general metrics, and how you spot a disengaged employee. On the metrics side, if you want one powerful, singular measurement you can also benchmark externally against other companies, the employee Net Promoter Score (eNPS) has become close to a standard metric. It's a powerful single-item tool, but it's not enough on its own to transform your culture or serve as the basis for major ongoing work, it's not diagnostic, but it'll tell you where you stand. Beyond that, a lot depends on how your organization actually defines engagement, a common problem is organizations deciding they want to measure engagement without ever getting clear on what engagement specifically means for them, what it looks like, how it drives the business, and what impact it has. Until you answer those questions, it's hard to measure it effectively. So start with a clear definition, then use surveys and other feedback mechanisms to check whether what you defined as engagement is actually happening.

On spotting a disengaged employee, you often don't need a metric if you're clear about what engagement means for your organization, because you'll see it in behavior. An engaged employee cares about their work, leans in, raises their hand to do more, help build, and grow, and puts energy into the system rather than taking energy out, they offer suggestions rather than criticism. That's part of how you define engagement, and at an individual level, it's usually fairly straightforward to recognize those behaviors and then coach people up, or coach them out.

Susmita Sarma: You've written "Unlocking High Performance," run your own coaching business, and started an employee engagement leader community, what's that community about?

Jason Lauritsen: I launched it in June, and the reason was that especially in this moment in history, understanding how to evolve employee engagement is more important than ever, and I wanted to provide a resource, group coaching, and a network to support HR leaders on that journey, in a way that was cost-accessible, hiring an individual coach or consultant can get really expensive. I wanted something high-value but lower cost, with monthly training relevant to what's happening right now around engagement, a place to connect with peers, and a kind of group coaching format. There's more information on my website for anyone interested.

Susmita Sarma: What's your favorite business book?

Jason Lauritsen: Probably my all-time favorite is "Fierce Conversations" by Susan Scott, I've read it probably four times and learned something new each time.

Susmita Sarma: Any thought leaders you follow closely?

Jason Lauritsen: I tend to follow organizations more than specific individuals, but one person I'd call out is Richard Sheridan, who runs a company called Menlo Innovations and has written a couple of books, I really admire what he's built there.

Susmita Sarma: Since we're recording this during the COVID era, what's one piece of advice you'd give young HR leaders graduating or stepping into the field?

Jason Lauritsen: Study human behavior, psychology, and the social sciences more than you study best practices. The more you understand how people operate, what motivates them, how they work, and can connect that back to helping them do better work, the better positioned you'll be, because looking at how we've done HR for the last couple of decades, we haven't always gotten it right.

Susmita Sarma: What's the best way for people to reach out and learn more about your work?

Jason Lauritsen: My website is the best place to find me, Jason Lauritsen, L-A-U-R-I-T-S-E-N, or just email me at jason@jasonlauritsen.com. I'm pretty easy to reach, and if you reach out, I'll respond and I'm happy to field any questions.

Susmita Sarma: Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us, I really enjoyed this conversation.

Jason Lauritsen: Absolutely, thanks for the invitation.

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